Time for civil conversations
I recently sent a letter to the editor encouraging ALL Americans, of every color, race, gender and party to use the NON violent means of voting, communication and economic power to resist the erosion of our free speech rights. To stand up to the silicon valley oligarchs that run face book, twitter, Amazon and the media moguls. To assure that we defend our freedom to express our opinion, what it they may be, without being harassed, slandered, and abused, and to return to the days of CIVIL discussion.
While I have rarely responded to the on line comments, I felt that in this situation, it was appropriate. There were many responses, both positive and negative to the letter. To all that did respond, thank you for using that very right of freedom of speech to voice your opinion. To some of those that responded negatively, thank you for proving my point ! Two responders called me a “racist” (which could not be further from the truth), one claimed I was making a threat, and several simply responded with nasty name calling, the hallmark of the intolerant. One writer claimed that I was idolizing the rioters that attacked the Capital. I detest violence and decry the attack, but that was not even a subject of the letter!! As well, the letter of Jan. 20 ranting against me for things I never even said or spoke about, telling me to “get my facts straight” relating to the election, may be the most puzzling response of all, since I never once mentioned or referenced the election!
My point is proven. If we, as a people can not view others ideas and respond with civil conversations, not name calling and hatred, our freedom of speech, the hallmark of our Democratic Republic is in dire jeopardy! There was a reason that the very first Amendment to the Bill of Rights was “freedom of speech.” Until this culture of uncivilized attacks, no matter what side of the political aisle, on those we do not agree with ends, this country will never heal and become united. To quote Abraham Lincoln, “A house divided against itself can not stand.”
Barry Dittler, Wailua
I have facebook account. I had it since 2007. But I hadn’t used it for years. Only now I started using it again. The neat thing is I would really like it if our location goes into detail of other countries and place pictures and people of military might on Facebook. Unfortunately this network we’re on is stuck on high school reunions and only specialize in “I went to that high school too.” Rather than specialize in World politics and terrorism being able to use Facebook and we being able to see it. That would be good if they would put me in the category of others, like Israel. Or the middle east Facebook. That kind of people. But no, I’m stuck with high school classmates. So this pretty much sucks. Anyone into Facebook? I hope you see it my way. World terrorism and politics. For Facebook.
Morning Barry. Did you write your first letter because Twitter suspended Trump’s account after he incited a violent mob to overthrow our government? If I may do so, I would like to present my point of view in a civil matter:
1) The first amendment only prevents the government from interfering with your speech. Private companies can do what they want. If you think that should change, you should propose a new constitutional amendment.
2) Understand that you might have gotten a hostile reaction to your first letter because you referred to Trump as inspiring liberty, when only a few days earlier, he incited a violent mob to overthrow our government. That is not what I would call a shining example of liberty.
In the most civil way possible, I wish you a blessed day.
Puhi Bob,
No, it had nothing to do with Trump or his twitter account. I nave never had either a twitter or facebook account, or any social media account for that matter, so I never ever saw, or really cared to see his tweets ! And I really did not say he inspired liberty. I do believe that he woke up the average American and reminded then that they are the real power in this country. That they are the important ones. Would we eat without farmers or ranchers, have vehicles without the factory workers, of course not. Could we do without face book, twitter or amazon, of course. So, who is really important. I have seen an erosion of free speech and an increased lack of civility happening long before Trump was president. Biden is my 13th president ! I simply wanted to remind people that having giant corporations control every aspect of our speech is dangerous, and a real threat to our democracy and freedom to speak and think (within reason of course) as we wish. Plus, Trump said, ” PEACEFULLY march to the Capital and let your voice be heard”. I really seriously doubt that he intended for a bunch of crazy idiots to attack the Capitol.
Now, see, civil conversation is productive, and I thank you for engaging that way.
The armed and dangerous Mob came to DC with an agenda running between starting civil war to stopping the electoral college process thru occupation and hostages within the Capital. trump incited them by standing behind the Presidential Seal and validating their purpose by saying that he won and the election was stolen. He then indicated the time to go to the Capital.
I agree they were a “bunch of crazy idiots” but, they were trump’s idiots and he knew it!
Frankly, I don’t understand what you are advocating. Are you saying that large corporations should be somehow dissolved or regulated by the government? How does a private company violate free speech rights? Membership on Facebook, Twitter is voluntary and subject to these private companies rules. I really don’t think you have thought this through as to “free speech” and what is means under our laws.
And Barry, the attacks will only get worst with the Biden Presidency, which began before he took the oath of office. His words and actions has widened the divide of American citizens. It is difficult to maintain your position, please hold on. Maybe a prayer helps.
James, I hope you are wrong, for the sake of the country. But, listening to the comments coming from his party, I am even more concerned. When you hear them advocating having homeland security take Trump supporters children and put them in reeducation camps (that is called College anyways), or that all Trump supporters need to be “de programmed” ,what ever that means, I really have deep concerns. I pray that they can overcome their hatred for the good of this country. Biden is my 13th president , I hope he does well for the country.
Put a reference on your outrageous charges. If some obscure State Assemblyman from Iowa said those things, or perhaps your neighbor did, he doesn’t represent the Party.
Pete,
He was an attorney for PBS, a public service company paid for with our tax dollars ! My point was that this type of obvious hatred and rhetoric is doing nothing to unite us , and everything to divide us ! Fortunately, he was fired. I was simply pointing out how talk like this damages the country.
You were not pointing out some concept, you were assigning an outrageous point of view to your opposition. It can be safely said that your opposition fired this guy for making this statement; but, you still try to use it against them. Stop playing these games, Dittler!
AMAZING! Didnt see anything from you when they were rioting and knocking down all of the monuments all over the country and it was called “protests”..”two face”
Joe Public, sorry quite the opposite ! Those “protests” were simply mob violence and riots, and an excuse to loot and steal. Thousands of businesses were destroyed, tens of thousands of innocent peoples jobs lost and and billions of dollars in damage done. Dozens of police were killed and many hundreds hurt. Those that tore down monuments , like the rioters and looters should be in jail ! But notice, they are not. Most of those charged with violence were let go scot free. I am amazed that you would think that I would ever , for one moment, believe that was right. I , in my life have seen many of those beautiful monuments personally, and to watch them being destroyed by antifa punks was a desecration !!!I had a sore throat from screaming at the TV and cursing the mayors and government leaders that allow it to happen !! Sorry, but you have me ALL wrong !
A current Princeton Study, popularized by (R) Congressmen in the House indicates that 93% of the BLM protests were nonviolent. Tearing down statues were considered “acts of violence ” in the study, Most all of the violence occurred in two locations: Portland and Seattle over multiple days and events. There are no official damage numbers at this time. The Insurance Industry produced the “Billions” estimate. Most violence occurred after the protests ended and police started street clearing tactics. By August, when protest declined, only 2 Police officers had been killed during post protest looting; not dozens.
There has been, in TGI comments, a false equivalency associated with BLM protests and the Capital insurrection.
The Capital insurrection involved armed groups, was planned to be violent, and was to involve occupying the Capital and holding (and harming) hostages.
There are no reasonable comparisons that can be made between these profoundly different entities.
Pete, you left out Kenosha, Minneapolis to name more. I never, said anything about BLM neither did the writer I responded to. However, since you say 93% were peaceful, then , obviously, the other 7% were not. Using your justification, say that 2,000 people attacked the capital, out of 74 million Trump voters, that means 99.997 % were peaceful ! Numbers do NOT make either of these things right. If you read what both myself and Joe Public said, no one even Mentioned the capital incident. You take and inject things into a conversation that have no relevance to the conversation at hand.
I didn’t say 93%, the Princton study did. Neither did I “justify” the violence it reported on. That report put the lie to your description of violence sweeping the Nation that you assigned to BLM and your imaginary Antifa. The violence was more correctly determined as related to post protest activities, only 2 cities, and what has become militarized police tactics and departments.
Your big deal is really not about Mighty Tech versus our Free Speech, it’s completely about donald jennifer trump getting banned from Twitter, oh my! He was the leader of and the inciter of an armed mob that staged an insurrection at the Nation’s Capital with the agenda of reversing the National Election outcome. Oh yes he did incite. One word (peacefully) does not out weigh an hour of “you must be strong, and fight fight fight and take back what was stolen from you.” That’s why Justice carries a scale! Seditionists do not get free speech!
And in that 7%, they counted tearing down statues to be violent, as Pete stated. Stop trying to skew the issue, please. Let’s take a look at the violence at the T**** campaign stops, shall we? You go ahead and give your numbers and I’ll check them, too.
Mr. Dittler’s false piety is par for the course of his ilk.
Ikashibi, exactly what is my ILK ?? Freedom loving American, supporter of the constitution, , independent voter, or maybe you are referring to my skin color (which you are just assuming) ? Sorry, your comment again reinforces my contention that civil discussion is dead ! It served no purpose that to prove my point that nasty comments are the weapon of choice of the intolerant !
Wow, Ikashibi offers the slightest insult and you lash back like you’ve been kneed in the groin.
Face it Mr Dittler, you’re just a triggered self-righteous snowflake itching for a fight from your imaginary high horse.
Mister M,
Well, since Ikashibi know’s nothing about me, has never met me or spoken to me, I simply asked what he meant. Of course, it was meant as an insult, but was it necessary ? Of course not, as it served no positive purpose.
As for your name calling insult, it is to be expected by someone of your ILK .
Out of curiosity and in the spirit of communication, Barry Dittler, how do you feel about wearing a mask to diminish the chances of getting, or spreading, the virus? How do you feel about leaders who regard those who wish masks to be more common for the time being are being “weak” and cow-towing to government overreach?
And what is your take on “Resort Bubbles”?
Kauaiboy,
I wear a mask when necessary, even though I hate them. At this time, it simply makes sense. I am 69 and have emphysema, so I am high risk.The question is, when the majority of people have been vaccinated, will they still be mandatory ? Now, Biden had made them mandatory on all Federal property. Do you think it is necessary , while say, hiking by yourself, with no other person in sight, in a National park, that wearing a mask is protecting you or anyone else. But, that is now the law ! Broad stroke legislation is never a good thing. As for resort bubbles, while I understand the intent was a safe way to get some tourists back, I don’t think they will do much to help all those small businesses and their employees . Few people are going to take a one week vacation an not be able to see the island or go to our beaches ! So maybe the resorts benefit, but few others.
I will try a civil discussion with KauaiBoy…. 1.I think a mask has proven to do it’s job to protect us from those we don’t know yet. 2. I don’t think (leaders) POLITICIANS should be running the show. I think specialists should be the only ones dealing with pandemic issues period. 3. My take on the bubbles to me is it’s a pet project of the mayors. It basically says let’s find a way to protect the residents, but then we want the tourists to spend money and vacation here… boy! Wait till you see the resort we have for you. Not to worry everybody else is in the same boat! It’s been a pleasure, I’m glad we could have this” civil discussion “. Aloha
Barry Dittler,
Perhaps the best way to “stand up to the silicon valley oligarchs that run face book, twitter, Amazon and the media moguls” is to turn your back on them and stop doing business with them.
If you call for civility, you must practise it. These words, recently used by Mr. Dittler, actually fall within the category of what he describes as “nasty name calling, the hallmark of the intolerant:”
Jan 12
leftist elites
your own leftist, socialist nonsense.
like talking to a stone
Jan 20
[Describing people as being in an] uncontrolled, psychotic rage
Jan 21
silicon valley oligarchs
Pete,
1. I went back through the letters of 1/12 and I made NO comments on that date ! Either you have the date wrong, or you read something from some one else. Please feel free to copy and paste what you read for me to see !
2. I said that the “mere mention of Trumps name can cause some people to go into an uncontrolled psychotic rage”. Sorry, I do stand by that one, as I have seen it many times on TV.
3.ol·i·garch
/ˈäləˌɡärk/
noun
1.
a ruler in an oligarchy.
2.
(especially in Russia) a very rich business leader with a great deal of political influence.
Now, if you would not define Jeff Bezos, Zuckerberg or Dorsey as VERY rich businessmen with a great deal of political influence, I don’t know how else to describe them. All 3 have given millions to political parties, to, of course, gain political influence. So, I stand by that one as well. Not an insult, just a matter of fact ! I realize that the term is most commonly used to describe Russian’s, but it fits everyone , every where, as well.
You are right, that was from Jan. 13th, the same day you called Gary Hooser, at the bottom of his column: “…elitist, socialist, far left radicals like you…” with your conservative curmudgeon garbage mouth (BTW, that’s your “Ilk”). I’m 71 and I watched a lot of you boys hit peak earnings in the 80’s, lose your integrity, and become Reaganites. It was the easy way out, no confrontations at Bar-B-Ques where you tell “when I was a boy” stories about saying whatever you pleased. Then, with your aging white privilege, you became everyone’s “crazy uncle” these past 4 years (more “Ilk”). I have 5 degrees and 50 years on the Left Coast; but, Kauai is full of folks 5x as elite and 5x more left than me. We are all saying right now to you, Curmudgeon Barry: “Bring it!”
Pete,
Well, congratulations on being so educated. I am only 69, and only have 2 advanced degrees, so obviously, you are so much smarter than myself and most people. As for there being so many elite, leftists on the island (your words, not mine), it is what it is. As for being a “crazy uncle Curmudgeon” (again your words), if it is crazy to want to be able to have a civil conversation sans the nastiness and name calling, then so be it. I would rather be crazy than disagreeable and nasty !
You, Dittler, are simply pretending to want civil discussion because you use that premise to cover your own namecalling and partisanship. You praise trump’s accomplishments on a dark blue Island? Then duck and cover and that is all about you; not some concept about civility!
We know he was a dangerous narcissist, we know he had no empathy, he had no class, no charm, no coolness, no credibility, no compassion, no wit, no warmth, no wisdom, no subtlety, no sensitivity, no self-awareness, no humility, no honor, no grace, and committed an act of sedition going out the door!
Next time, stick to your topic and leave out the trumplove and fifth grade “Lookie there, I told you they were like that!”
James, thanks for commenting. Yes, I do believe that these mega corporations should be broken up. I grew up long before there was an internet or social media. Your received fair and honest reporting of all sides of an issue through the newspaper, and real journalists that reported the news, not their opinions. When face book and other social media sites were beginning , they promised to simply be platforms to allow people to express their opinions. Now, they use alogrithm’s to filter content depending upon THEIR criteria. Google and Yahoo can filter out content they don’t want you to see. The same with twitter and face book. They have become the arbitrators of “truth”, according to their outlook. So , this is no longer free speech, but filtered speech. In the past, they broke up monopolies like ATT, US Steel, railroads and Standard oil because they had too much control of commerce. Now, the social media companies and search engines have too much control of information ! It is a new digital era, but the same curse of too much power in the hands of a few powerful people. While face book , twitter and others are voluntary, without the internet, where do you go for information. We have lost a great number of newspapers, magazines , so there is really not other place for news. The media giants on cable TV are not journalists but pundits, that give you the stories based upon their own biases and slant stories to fit , again , THEIR concept of what you should hear(on both sides of the political isle). So, yes, they are corporations, not the government. But, the first amendment was meant to foster and promote free speech, and when the government gives these mega corporations a license, I believe that they should have to follow what was intended. Section 230 laws protect them as “platforms for the dissemination of free speech and to protect them from liability for said content”. When they control that content, they are violating the intent of the law. If they can break up ATT because it controlled the majority of the communication structure (ie phones and phone lines) , why are these companies shielded, as they control the majority of the information available on the internet.
As you recall, the government broke up ATT because of a purported monopoly of a public utility, ie phone service. Here, we have multiple social media companies, including Fox media, who provide a service to the public, just like TV networks and news sources. If we look at the radio market, I heart radio controls over 850 stations across the US. Should they be broken up? They dominate the market, yet there are other groups of radio stations that one can listen to and call in for comments. If folks think that Twitter “violates their free speech”, (which is doesn’t as it is a private company and free to make rules, as long as those rules don’t discriminate against a protected class of person, ie race, sex, national origin, etc), these folks can start another media company and social media platform if they so choose, or simply join other social media platforms like Tic Tok or many others. Don’t support a company if you don’t like their policies or politics. I will never shop at Hobby Lobby or buy a pillow from Mr. Pillow but I don’t believe the government should shut them down or break them up. The concept of “free speech” is thrown around by you and others without a real understanding of what it means legally.
Pete,
He was an attorney for PBS, a public service company paid for with our tax dollars ! My point was that this type of obvious hatred and rhetoric is doing nothing to unite us , and everything to divide us ! Fortunately, he was fired. I was simply pointing out how talk like this damages the country.
James, they also broke up US Steel, Standard Oil and other “private” companies. US Steel controlled the steel industry, Standard Oil the access to petroleum products. Now, Kohls, and Bed Bath and Beyond stopped selling “my pillow” because they don’t like his politics ! This has nothing to do with the product, simply politics. The problem is that twitter and face book own a lot of the other social media outlets, or use their massive resources to crush them. Parler is one example. Amazon, google and apple used their dominance to prevent their app from being accessed, and AWS closed down their web services because again, they did not like their “politics”. While I never saw what was being posted, they claimed it was because of “violent rhetoric”. Yet, Antifa organizes their attacks on face book and twitter with no problems. The violence in Denver and other cities in the last few days are examples, as they have proven that they were organized and co-ordinated on these plaforms. And the internet is in a sense really a public utility in that the companies that provide access (spectrum, ATT, sprint etc. ) are themselves regulated by the FCC. Without the access, there is no internet. There are many ways to “legally” look at free speech, but the ability to see and assess information should not be decided by a few , powerful companies.
Now we finally get down to your real point. You feel that the right wing as been singled out by certain social media companies. Your example: Parlor losing it’s hosting for refusing to take down calls for violence and insurrection. Private companies, under our system of capitalism (which is a cornerstone of the Republicans’ ideology last time I checked) allows private corporations to do that if they chose, as long as they don’t discriminate against protected classes of people. So you want more government intrusion, more regulations, and bigger government control of private companies? But only when right wing views are being stifled. Now I understand your real point. Thanks.
Craig,
I have neither a face book twitter or any other social media account ! So they are not getting a penny from me. All I am advocating for is the right for all people to speak freely without the nasty attacks. Just look above at the comment from Ikishibi to see what I mean. What is MY ilk ?? Freedom loving American ? Independent voter ? Supporter of the constitution ? Guess all of those make me a bad person in some twisted minds !
Barry…. I applaud those who write letters of opinion because they are willing and ready to take on the bs that comes with those who must respond the way they do because this is their way of showing their “civil discussions” with you. Just an opinionated vision. I think the country in general is nothing like it was. My wife and I constantly talk about why people are so divided. The TGI comment section prime example, but the letter they read is sometimes the culprit and shares 50% of the division. This country has a lot of people who will never change in the way they think and do things that alone is enough to keep our country divided.
Hi,
How about a solution that is a little broader and will protect from the virus and help the economy of Kauai.
1. Allow visitors who come with a completed vaccination COVID card and a NAAP pretest that would screen for vaccinated asymptomatic carriers in, without having to quarantine.
2. Hv visitors take a NAAP pretest 5 days before arrival and upon arrival with a negative test, take another quick COVID test. Allow them to rent a car and do shopping, of course, with masks. Allow them to go to accomidations which will quarantine them more efficiently than “bubbles”. Results from test taken at airport would be quickly emailed to them. Most likely almost all tests would be negative.
Two more comments:
1. Staying in a bubble resort costs as much or more than staying in a condo for a week! Who wants that!
2. We are lucky to have someone in government who has current medical expertise, Dr Green. Use him.
CBagley, RN,PhD
“To stand up to the silicon valley oligarchs that run face book, twitter, Amazon and the media moguls”
Where’s the outrage for conservative media like Fox and Sinclair? How about QAnon, 4Chan, Parler etc, etc M pushing hate, violence and racism 24×7? How about Limbaugh and all the delusional rightwing talk radio? The silence is deafening!
For all your claims about not being partisan and wanting to have civil discussion, the failure to mention the depraved, violent cesspool of rightwing whacko media exposes your hypocrisy.
Well put. Why single out the “silicon valley” media companies? Obviously, they lean left or at least middle and don’t support right wing calls for violence and insurrection, unlike right wing media outlets. I notice Barry didn’t call for Fox or I heart radio to be broken up. Very telling as to where Barry’s politics lie, though he tries to paint himself as a centrist. If it quacks like a duck…….
James, neither did I call for CNN, MSNBC and others to be broken up. My only reference to non internet content and access, which is the crux of my conversation, was “media giants”. You are the one putting a twist to my words to fit what you “think” I mean.
So you would include Fox Media as, by all accounts, it is a media giant. What about Google? What about Yahoo? Or tic tok? Or Netflix? Or Bloomberg? Or Breitbart? Do you want all media “giants” broken up? Why? With so many media companies, you can’t reasonably argue the monopoly issue. This is about your right wing heroes being banned for promoting violence and insurrection as much as you try to deny it. If it quacks like a duck………
Social media companies are private companies that we can very easily live without.
Rather than confronting them to bend them to our will, why don’t we just avoid them?
Look at what they have done to divide the country. America is better off without them.
As per usual, the commentators all forgot or failed to clarify the “rules” set down by Kaua’i (P.A.) prosecuting attorney, and the mayor’s comment, that if we do not follow the rules, We will “cut bait”. Had you been “paying attention” at our faked out County 2018 mayoral race, you would have seen at least one candidate, who would never have allowed the snake eyes effect that Der-Ika presented at the Capitol opening, and when, what i thought was a gentleman turned into one of the many “slithering snakes” that continue to prey on We the People, ALL day EVERY way! 128-years Overthrow and especially, 1959 Hickham AFB, when I heard out from a Top Secret all-military gathering, a Navy officer inquire of my dad, an Intelligence Officer USAF, “What do you think about our putting a noose around Hawaii’s neck?” Civil Beat published and archived each mayoral candidate’s “i have a dream” of the individual planning for this seat. In my case, had i prevailed, there would have been a lot of people and policies removed and most of them would be in federal detention, like they have done to a councilman, set-up to fail, just like in the movies! This is the reality then to now! What a mess, Yeah?
Mister M,
I would rather have the opportunity to listen to other points of view and reject those that are incorrect, than have the right to chose taken away from me. That is my point. Let every voice be heard, and let US decide what we wish to believe. No powerful media should have the ability to chose for us. That is what they do in China, North Korea ect, where the only news is what the state run media feeds them. I have never even read anything by Qanon, 4chan or been on parler. But, should I not be able to and reject the bad myself ?